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TOPIC: Banners and Berwick

Banners and Berwick 9 years 2 months ago #1962

An interesting piece with numerous valid points .
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Banners and Berwick 9 years 2 months ago #1963

  • Night Terror
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A very interesting and well reasoned article.

As a non Rangers and non-Old Firm supporter, I am regularly amused at the OF's ability to turn every other club's fans against them. In terms of club rivalry and wanting to see a bigger club make a fools of themselves I'm very pleased that it happens.

However, as a Scot it drives me to despair that we are so unable to rise above ancient and outdated tribal behaviours, especially when some of the official attempts at expunging it from our culture are potentially much more harmful than the symptoms they aim to address.

In particular, I acknowledge the writer's implicit distinction between songs that are sectarian and those that may appear to be sectarian. One doesn't have to agree with the sentiment or like the singer of the song to be concerned when the freedom to sing such songs is legislated against.

Has there ever been a united attempt by the more enlightened Old Firm fans to address potential curbs on the liberty to sing something that doesn't infringe non-football related laws? I recall Celtic fans organising a George Square rally against the Offensive Behaviour at Football bill, but as this rally then proceeded to Celtic Park for that day's home game I have my doubts it was intended to draw a cross-club lobby.

Is it impossible for Old Firm fans to agree that their freedom of expression is more important than the different views they express? Is everyone - and I include non-OF fans in this - happier provoking and summoning up fake outrage at what their opponents sing?
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Banners and Berwick 9 years 2 months ago #1964

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Ross wrote
"My father is a member of the Orange order. Yet, I don't remember being told at any point in my life that singing about a strange old man in Rome or a group of Irish radicals from the 1860's is a part of my clubs tradition. Surely, my father the Orangeman, would have mentioned this to me at some point?"

My late father was also a member of the Orange Order and I remember him speaking to me about my behaviour at Rangers matches and at parades. He told me that singing about the pope or being upto my knees in fenian blood had nothing to do with supporting Rangers. I know it disgusted him during Orange parades when large numbers of onlookers wearing Rangers tops would sing "The Sash" "NPOR" or "The Billy Boys".
My father always disliked the association of supporting Rangers and the singing of songs about UDA/UVF/The Sash/Derry's Walls/NPOR

He taught me well, I stopped singing those songs 25yrs ago, because I respected my father and his opinions, in my eyes he was a great man.

We don't need a song book, any decent minded Rangers supporter knows what we can sing and cant sing. Those that dont know need educated, identify them and send them to Ibrox for a lecture in the real traditions of our great club. Mr Greig would be the ideal educator.

I feel sad for Scotland in general and football in particular.
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Banners and Berwick 9 years 2 months ago #1969

  • iaincampbelli
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Once again the club has to take the lead by saying what is and is not acceptable explicitly.It may seem obvious to the many but it is clearly not to the few. If the club defines the parameters most will listen as respect this. Diversity is essential.Many see the UnionJacjk as a club symbol. I do not but respect those who do for example.
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Banners and Berwick 9 years 2 months ago #1973

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Night Terror wrote:
A very interesting and well reasoned article.

As a non Rangers and non-Old Firm supporter, I am regularly amused at the OF's ability to turn every other club's fans against them. In terms of club rivalry and wanting to see a bigger club make a fools of themselves I'm very pleased that it happens.

However, as a Scot it drives me to despair that we are so unable to rise above ancient and outdated tribal behaviours, especially when some of the official attempts at expunging it from our culture are potentially much more harmful than the symptoms they aim to address.

In particular, I acknowledge the writer's implicit distinction between songs that are sectarian and those that may appear to be sectarian. One doesn't have to agree with the sentiment or like the singer of the song to be concerned when the freedom to sing such songs is legislated against.

Has there ever been a united attempt by the more enlightened Old Firm fans to address potential curbs on the liberty to sing something that doesn't infringe non-football related laws? I recall Celtic fans organising a George Square rally against the Offensive Behaviour at Football bill, but as this rally then proceeded to Celtic Park for that day's home game I have my doubts it was intended to draw a cross-club lobby.

Is it impossible for Old Firm fans to agree that their freedom of expression is more important than the different views they express? Is everyone - and I include non-OF fans in this - happier provoking and summoning up fake outrage at what their opponents sing?

I think at this present moment in time it is. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that Rangers and Celtic fans have never been so polarised.

Maybe in time though, who knows.
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